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Author Topic: Let Them Eat Cake
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  rwilymz
  Edwardsville
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Let Them Eat Cake    (Posted Fri, Mar 25 '11 at 03:04 UTC)

I?ve gotten a ration of shit lately from some hard-core Organics because I?ve dared to say that hard-core Organics are inappropriately full of themselves.

Actually, what I?ve said is that if their notions were to be implemented the way they want, it would result in the 95% of our nation?s population who are not involved in farming going hungry, and a large portion of half the rest of the world which relies on US agriculture having food shortages, probably riots, possibly thousands of starvation deaths [thousands more than ?normal?, that is], and maybe even food wars.

Among the 95% of Americans going hungry, there may possibly be some of the same. Guess, I asked them, where those starvation deaths would occur? It wouldn?t be among the middle or wealthy class. It?s always the poverty class that catches it in the knickers.

Organics don?t like to hear ... they hate hearing, in fact; resent hearing ... that ?organic agriculture? is a novelty in a technological society. It cannot be anything but a novelty. Just like solar energy and wind turbines. Novelties all.

Are they good novelties? sure. Worthwhile? you betcha! Admirable? that too. And I happily participate, for I like the idea. A lot. I simply don?t delude myself into believing it?s more than it is.


Continue reading at: http://dblyelloline.blogspot.com/2011/03/let-them-eat-cake.html

Ross & Jeannie Laura Lane Lambs
 Angela
 Conway
Re: Let Them Eat Cake    (Posted Fri, Mar 25 '11 at 07:24 UTC)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with what you call "Hard Core Organics." I will allow that it is difficult to achieve, but it is an admirable goal.

I raise crops and livestock. I do everything in my power to do it organically. But, I know that, realistically....it's impossible. Somewhere down the line, I will encounter a hurdle that I cannot cross. But it doesn't stop me from trying, and in doing so, producing a healthier product.

I don't believe that the organic idea is a "novelty" as you put it....I believe that it is a true calling for some, and a great desire for others.

I am a cancer survivor, and I believe that what we are eating, is killing us. I believe that the chemicals that we are using in the ground...is killing us. etc, etc. I'm not purist, as I love bologna and hot dogs (I'm a backslider)....we all know what's in those. But, I do try to eat "healthier" then I have in the past. To me....this means organic, or at least naturally grown. It's not a novelty to me....it's the way that I want to live my life, and hopefully pro-long it.

Angela G Stanley Rockgate Farm
 rwilymz
 Edwardsville
Re: Let Them Eat Cake    (Posted Fri, Mar 25 '11 at 07:19 UTC)

[[There is absolutely nothing wrong with what you call "Hard Core Organics." I will allow that it is difficult to achieve, but it is an admirable goal.]]

I'll try not to be offended that you think killing half the planet by starvation is admirable. Unless and until you say otherwise, I'll be kind and assume you failed to read the whole essay or, if you read it, failed to understand it or otherwise stopped processing the message after you determined that I was criticizing something about "organic agriculture".


[[I don't believe that the organic idea is a "novelty" as you put it....I believe that it is a true calling for some, and a great desire for others.]]

So you either do not understand what the word "novelty" means, or you failed to read the entire essay or, if you read it, failed to understand it ...

Let me put this simply for you:
YOU find organic agriculture PERSONALLY REWARDING. Happy day: so do I. So do a lot of people. I have nothing to say about the personal rewards anyone feels. I DO have something to say about the self-righteous demands that certain of this group makes upon everyone.

BECAUSE: organic agriculture cannot feed 300 million Americans [let alone the rest of the world we supply food to] unless all 300 million of us devote our waking hours to organic agriculture. It is labor-intensive and low-yeild. You know this, since you do it yourself.

What allows you to do this - in our society - is a whole technological infrastructure surrounding you built and maintained by tens of millions of people in the US and around the world who do NOT grow food in personally rewarding ways, but instead mine ore, smelt ore, fabricate metals into refrigerators and electrical cables, and deliver refrigerators to your local Home Depot so you can buy one, and string electrical cables on poles to your house so you can plug it in after you buy it, to keep your food from spoiling and giving you food poisoning that kills you.

Can you feed those millions of people from your personally rewarding garden so that they can continue to do those things they do to maintaine the technological infrastructure surrounding you?

I feel safe in saying: no, you cannot.

Instead, what keeps these folks fed is commercial farming - the personally UNrewarding kind. And without it, those millions of people who make the metals to build your fridge, and deliver it to your store, and deliver it to you house, and works the whole system that sends electricity to your house so that you can avoid food spoilage wouldn't be able to do that, and you'd be living hand to mouth like we all did just a few hundred years ago and half the planet does today, and where the life expectancy is between 35 and 45.

In short, you would not likely have survived long enough to be a 'cancer survivor', because that wonderful "natural" and "organic" lifestyle you and I love so much is only made possible by the commercial farming you love to hate.

Ross & Jeannie Laura Lane Lambs
 kodiakgirl
 kodiak
Re: Let Them Eat Cake    (Posted Fri, Mar 25 '11 at 10:06 UTC)

In England, the small farm never went out of style. People are fed by locally produced small farms. Here, large scale production has allowed our population to explode. One of these days, oil will become more scarce, this kind of farming and shipping food all over the place will become impossible. Those of us who have embraced "organics" or whatever you want to call it will be the last standing. Of course there will be mass die offs. We are living off the liquid sunshine (oil) which has allowed us to explode in population. Someday, that will go backwards (if we haven't already perished from using up all the fresh water like - is it Arizona or New Mexico?). It is a matter of survival that people embrace the local food movement, accept that some day there will be mass die offs if it doesn't catch on a spread like wildfire, and enjoy life. If you can't enjoy life knowing there will be mass die offs, then you should consider realizing that you can't do anything about it and you are stressing yourself out unnessessarily. Sorry for you.

heather
 Angela
 Conway
Re: Let Them Eat Cake    (Posted Fri, Mar 25 '11 at 10:10 UTC)

I'm trying not to be offended by your rhetoric.

You will find most people to be open to alternate points of view. That is, as long as they are presented in such a fashion as not to be condescending, arrogant, or downright rude. Questioning someone's intelligence, simply because they do not happen to agree with all that you say, is the height of arrogance.

On this forum, you are allowed to present your opinions, as am I. It is not necessary to be combative or insulting in order to do so.

Have a great day.

Angela G Stanley Rockgate Farm
 kodiakgirl
 kodiak
Re: Let Them Eat Cake    (Posted Fri, Mar 25 '11 at 10:11 UTC)

Besides, how do you think people have survived for millions of years up until this industrial revolution? Just fine! We use a wood cookstove (anyone can cook with fire and half the planet does that now). Anyone can store food by drying, root storage, etc (we do). It's the way of the future. Liquid sunshine will run out someday, tractors will be stopped, and we will hopefully find a way to live in the putrid, toxic, dead environment greedy humans will have created. Have a great day!! Try to accept mass die offs, it's not your fault (it's the fault of those de-regulating, education cutting republicans, not yours).

heather
 Angela
 Conway
Re: Let Them Eat Cake    (Posted Fri, Mar 25 '11 at 10:31 UTC)

These need not be opposing concepts.

I'm a marketer. I make all of my overflow product available to the general public, and I do it at prices that EVERYONE can afford. Imagine how much fresh food you could buy, if you put down the cigarettes and beer.

It's a personal choice, and not a mutually exclusive one. I prefer to produce my goods organically if at all possible. Sometimes it's not. I acknowledge that. Although I'm very particular about my feed....sometimes I'm pretty sure, that my corn is not completely what it should be. But the cows got to eat.

I'm also a business woman. Sometimes I have to look at volume. Realistically, modern concepts allow for greater productivity. But that's my choice, and I exercise it. I also chose to be self sufficient. I can survive on my farm, can you?

Empower yourself with knowledge. Make wise choices. That's all we can hope to do.

Angela G Stanley Rockgate Farm
 kodiakgirl
 kodiak
Re: Let Them Eat Cake    (Posted Fri, Mar 25 '11 at 10:50 UTC)

Did you know that 94% of bottled water has 10 systemic pesticides in it, 3 of which are suspected of bee colony collapse? I don't really know how important a diverse ecosystem really is to life on this planet, England only has people, small farms, sheep, horses with hairy feet, rabbits, and a few scary gopher like creatures, oh and swans and they are doing fine. They cut down their last forest 500 years ago and killed their last predator 300 years ago. I live in Alaska where they are trying to do the same. Human greed can't be stopped, they are just to powerful. Regular people lack the money, power, and knowledge to stop them. All we can do it learn to survive and teach our children how. There are no guarantees in life. One the a regular person can do is spend every dollar in the politics they support, that is why we pay extra to buy organic produce, only to be broke by every wednesday. Even though we are little people, we can do that. Eventually, all those criminals like Monsanto will die out one way or another.

heather
 rwilymz
 Edwardsville
Re: Let Them Eat Cake    (Posted Fri, Mar 25 '11 at 11:39 UTC)

[[People are fed [in England] by locally produced small farms]]

More than here, yes. But not as much as you seem to believe.

You make several good points about many issues that are troublesome to a technological society run by a political system that refuses to look beyond the next election. Many of which I've also written about. And simply because an educated cynic would conclude that there WILL be "mass die-offs" is no reason to actively work for it and cheer it on. A malthusian crisis is not, and should not be, the ultimate goal.

[[how do you think people have survived for millions of years up until this industrial revolution?]]

Miserably.

[[Just fine!]]

You are grossly mistaken. The Noble Savage Myth is just that: a myth.

The life expectancy was 35 until agriculture came along, then 45 in societies that had both stable agriculture and plentiful resources ... it is the latter which reduced warfare and thus increased life expectancy.

There was no dentistry. A simple cold could kill you with "complications". You were at the mercy of whatever weather you were having and slept - literally - with your livestock, scratching at the same bugs, which you fought the hens for in order to have a snack. You ate what you had - including bugs - because you had it, and it sometimes consisted of digging ... let's call them "nuggets" ... out of pile of what my horses leave in the pasture.

This was Europe in the Dark Ages. 800 years ago. 600 years ago in some places. It's still common in some parts of the world. Or, rather, let's say "not UNcommon".

This is what you aspire to? This is "just fine"? Apart from being inhumanely unconcerned for the fate of, likely, BILLions of humans ... and, I might add, mostly in the most densely populated parts of the world. Africa ... Asia ... US inner cities ...

Not to accuse you of racism or anything, but what did they do to you that you want to kill them?

It has been said that the overpopulation issue is a good way for a liberal to be a racist without drawing attention to himself. I tend to agree. Just hide it under enough ancillary subjects and it disappears in a puff of false piety. Just like billions of Africans and Asians, I suppose.

...and don't look now, but since you appear to have followed the link and have likely seen my 'bio' or 'mission statement' or whatever it's called, and saw that I'm a libertarian ... libertarians LOVE deregulation. It ain't the government's bidness to regulate in the first place. But that's a somewhat different subject.


[[I'm trying not to be offended by your rhetoric]]

There's nothing to be offended by.

And, no, I do NOT find most people open to alternate perspectives. Quite the opposite, actually. Most people have their minds firmly made up and dislike people reminding them of the inherent fallacies in their notions.

You can probably use as an example, Heather. Just my guess, but I don't think she's done trying to rationalize instigating a malthusian crisis for political expedience.

Presenting a case and holding to it is not combative. It is, instead, presenting a case and holding to it. Some things just are, and a world full of nothing but subsistence agriculture is a world without the luxury to rename it "organic".


[[These need not be opposing concepts]]

You finally caught on.

Good for you. Now talk to Heather.

Ross & Jeannie Laura Lane Lambs
 Angela
 Conway
Re: Let Them Eat Cake    (Posted Sat, Mar 26 '11 at 12:17 UTC)

NO, YOU talk to Heather. Make your case, if you can.
But do so in a courtious manner. Just because she, and I for that matter, don't agree 100% with you, do not denigrate us....convince us.....if that it your desire. If not, agree to disagree....politely and respectfully.

But, one further comment: Don't you believe that it's time for the general population to take an interest in where their food comes from? If each person made that SUPREME sacrifice, and took the seeds from that tomato that they had for lunch, put them in a pot, and grew something.....If only a few people did this....Could you imagine the impact?

I think "mass die off" could be avoided if people became more responsible and proactive.

Angela G Stanley Rockgate Farm
 kodiakgirl
 kodiak
Re: Let Them Eat Cake    (Posted Sat, Mar 26 '11 at 12:20 UTC)

There are beautiful cultures in places like Africa and Mongolia. Don't assume they need to be polluted with toxins and electricity to be happy (or round up ready corn). Regulation is the one essential thing that keeps the big guys from totally running over people like you and me. Get a clue. We need a lot more regulation to make this a much healthier planet. China has been shipping all of it's toxic toys, drywall, pet food and baby formula to us because we are it's main (deregulated) market. They ship only non-toxic stuff to the E.U. and elsewhere because they have regulations against poisoning it's public (whom they are responsible for their healthcare). You really need to open up and listen to the whole world, because it's all of us together now. We have a lot to learn from how 3rd world people live, since we are on our way back there. You only need chemical fertilizers because you have destroyed your soil. A healthy soil, fertilized with green manures can fight off pests and diseases better than anything (like a healthy body can fight off cancer). The world will die if we keep doing it your way.

heather
 rwilymz
 Edwardsville
Re: Let Them Eat Cake    (Posted Sat, Mar 26 '11 at 12:35 UTC)

[[NO, YOU talk to Heather. ... But do so in a courtious manner.]]

I'm not being DIScourteous. I'm honest. I'm direct.

Many people like to think bluntness is the same as rudeness. And, well, they can think what they like. I personally consider someone who touts a philosophy that relies on several sincerely held beliefs that defy Reality to be insulting and offensive. But that's me.


[[Don't you believe that it's time for the general population to take an interest in where their food comes from?]]

Another tangential topic, and one I've written about before. Yes. It's very important. It would forestall quite a bit of the imperative many people have for demanding the government protect them from the things they're too lazy to do themselves. ...like the recent $500BILLion dollar authorization to get the FDA to "regulate" large-scale produce growers because as many as 3,000 Americans are adversely affected by "food-borne illness" each year [to the point of seeking medical attention] due to being unable to wash their own lettuce.

You could hire a personal chef for these people and save money.

Know what you're buying, where it comes from, cook your meat brown and your eggs solid, wash your vegetables, learn to follow a recipe - suddenly we don't need a lot of bossy intrusion.

Ross & Jeannie Laura Lane Lambs
 rwilymz
 Edwardsville
Re: Let Them Eat Cake    (Posted Sat, Mar 26 '11 at 12:55 UTC)

[[The world will die if we keep doing it your way.]]

And what is "my way", Heather? Are you trying to define me for me? Hmm?

Cuz that would be ... typical.

[[We have a lot to learn from how 3rd world people live]]

When was the last time you were in a 3rd world country? Or even a 2nd world country?

I'm going back to a few in May. I would strongly suggest to you that I know far more about it than you do. And while they are "beautiful" ... so is a comet. Until it hits Earth.

[[You only need chemical fertilizers because you have destroyed your soil.]]

You also need chmical fertilizers because liberal nitwits move out of the cities and suburbs, to the small towns where civic leaders are more than happy to rezone a corn field as Residential so the liberal nitwits can erect a field full of McMansions, and rezone the soybean field next to it Commercial, so those in the new subdivision don't have to drive into town to go to Applebees or The Gap, and the corn and soybean farmers are now having to do on 400 acres what they used to have 480 acres to do - to just break even. This rezoning increases property assessments and fills the coffers with property taxes. If the farmers don't break even, well, there's another 400 acres to convert to pavement.

And if you don't believe the people doing this aren't liberal nitwits then you haven't read the lawsuits they've filed whining about herbicide and fertilizer drift, demanding that the agriculture that keeps us all fed - including you too - be killed off.

But apparently that's all part of your Final Solution.

Now Angela may think that allusion is discourtious, but ... I'm not the one actively seeking 3 or 4 billion deaths.

Ross & Jeannie Laura Lane Lambs
 kodiakgirl
 kodiak
Re: Let Them Eat Cake    (Posted Sat, Mar 26 '11 at 01:55 UTC)

I live in a 3rd world company, America. I'm disgusted that one would grow 400 acres of soybeans. Why not grow an acre of each vegetable and actually feed some folks. Maybe all the people moving out of cities will be growing their own gardens. I am not dependent on chemically produced anything. You are very easy to define. While collecting seeds from England to Italy 2 years ago, I saw countries where there were no grocery stores and everyone bought fresh produce, cheese, bread and clothing from daily street markets. No one was fat and at night they walked around and conversed with each other in town plazas instead of watching tv. America could easily be that way if we weren't constantly stalled by people like you with faulty belief systems.

heather
 kodiakgirl
 kodiak
Re: Let Them Eat Cake    (Posted Sat, Mar 26 '11 at 02:00 UTC)

Herbicides and pesticides cause terrible deformities to workers unborn children who work these death fields. Your soil cannot hold water without organics to hold it. You are only helping to rid our country of it's fresh water stores, polluting drinking water and causing cancer to all those unsuspecting people who could possibly live within any distance of you. Basically, you are ruining our country and our planet with your ignorance. LET THEM EAT CAKE

heather
 foreversunrise
 piedmont
Re: Let Them Eat Cake    (Posted Sat, Mar 26 '11 at 03:13 UTC)

i have followed what ross has said and therefor i have read what everyone else says. i haven't read the whole thing you posted ross because everything i read that you said is sooooo long winded, and its the same thing over and over. i'm a full time paint contractor and started and natraully grown organic mini farm last year. i work every day and manage my crop and sell my crop (what i don't eat). all i'm saying is i grow my food to eat and sell, i have a job. if people haven't got so lazy they can to. now i cant wait to see how you insault me. lol

Dave & Roxanna foreversunriseorganics.com
 foreversunrise
 piedmont
Re: Let Them Eat Cake    (Posted Sat, Mar 26 '11 at 03:21 UTC)

oh windmills novilty well go out west around indio,CA miles of windmills that work very well. ask los angles how good.

Dave & Roxanna foreversunriseorganics.com
 rwilymz
 Edwardsville
Re: Let Them Eat Cake    (Posted Sat, Mar 26 '11 at 03:49 UTC)

[[ i cant wait to see how you insault me]]

I don't "insualt" anyone; I don't even insult them. I describe them as the present themselves.

It is the person who dislikes how he's accurately described who calls it an insult.

Congratulations on your mini farm; I'm sorry that you don't have the attention span to read a whole essay. They're really informative if you can manage it at some point.

Yes: windmills are a novelty. They're sprouting around me as well - a zone 3 area - and losing money for the state. Cuz ... see ... that's the thing with wind power. You have to have wind first. They work great where there's wind; they are among the stupidest forms of energy where there isn't. It's like solar power in Seattle, or a hydroelectric dam on a dry river, or ... do you get the point?

Limited utility, limited scope, that's what makes something a novelty. The answer isn't changing despite your sincere beliefs. Beliefs don't trump reality.

I would actually like to put up a turbine to supplement ours and sell electricity back to my rural co-op, but we don't have the $15,000, and it'd take [conservatively] 165 years to recoup the cost of it. That's what the turbine dude told me. I'm going to believe him, because he's the expert in that field. I doubt you are, so you'll pardon me if I remain dubious.

All the best.

Ross & Jeannie Laura Lane Lambs
 kodiakgirl
 kodiak
Re: Let Them Eat Cake    (Posted Sat, Mar 26 '11 at 04:10 UTC)

I realize now that the things you are saying are the way you justify what you do. You pretend that using pesticides and herbicides and chemical fertilizers means you are saving lives. You live in la la land. Here in Alaska, giant wind turbines now account for 75% of my towns energy, allowing us to save 800,000 barrels of fuel last year. We will double the amount of turbines this year and be totally powered by hydro and wind. It's a wonderful life! (and that's with the largest coast guard base in the world). It's all in how you choose to spend your money. Your stale, out of date ideas will be a memory soon, when the next generation saves what they can of the mess we will have left them. Too many of this generation are stuck on stu- well, I'm sure you understand what I'm saying. Huge, terrible things will happen before we are forced to change out of shear survival. In a measly couple hundred years people covered America like a cancer. Destruction, pollution, forests leveled, and now giant, poison farms...........all driven by greed and ignorance. You are part of the problem and we all evolve at different rates. Thanks for slowing down mankind with your faulty belief system that it's better to be poisoned than starve. People aren't going to starve if you don't feed them poison, they are going to start a garden and grow chickens. You could feed all those people moving into your area if you grew a suitable product. People want organic food.

heather
 rwilymz
 Edwardsville
Re: Let Them Eat Cake    (Posted Sat, Mar 26 '11 at 04:15 UTC)

[[I'm disgusted that one would grow 400 acres of soybeans]]

You want more?

Where do you think we get soy diesel from? tofu? soy sauce? bean curd? soy milk?

That stuff doesn't just grow on trees you know. Soy is an integral part of not only the energy independence you whine about, but also the healthy diet I would imagine you would support.

You make more good points about the breads and cheeses and non-fat people in small-village Europe. You can't see me but I had two thumbs up when I read that. If I had opposable big toes like a chimp, I'd have had four thumbs up.

But the deal still remains, it won't feed a planet of 7 billion people. That answer ain't changing either. As, I'm sure, yours that you'd as soon see 3 or 4 of those billion "die off".

And no television? for someone glued to their computer? One vice for another isn't an improvement; it's still hypocrisy.

The one guy with the 4,000 sq ft house has erected a grape arbor behind house. The deed restrictions prohibit much else. No gardening except for flowers - and they must be primariy perennials. Only horses allowed in the 5AC lots - because they can't prohibit it them under state law. The one section is 2AC lots, and no livestock at all are allowed, and pets only in enclosed yard.

Yeah, "maybe" they'll grow gardens doesn't really cut it.

But one thing I wanted to point out to you that I neglected earlier, Heather:

If you want to GUARANTEE that this nation have only large, impersonal, chemical-laden corporate farms, then regulate, regulate, regulate. Large corporate farms are the only ones with the financial wherewithal to hire the loyyers necessary to work their way through the regulation maze.

Who do you think proposes half the USDA and FDA regulations we got? I'll guarandamntee you it ain't "organic farmers". It is what they call "industry stakeholders". Monsanto, Cargill, ADM, American Farm Bureau ...

Why was Bush's Ag secretary the MO chapter pres of AFB? The group that virtually wrote the NAIS monstrosity? Because they're in on it.

"Oh, but the regulations don't apply to 'small' farms ..."? There's hundreds of small farms right now in federal administrative court proceedings trying to prove exactly that - and bankrupting themselves in the process. The FDA and USDA can overstep their regulatory authority any time it chooses and the burden of proof is on the small farm.

Ross & Jeannie Laura Lane Lambs
 rwilymz
 Edwardsville
Re: Let Them Eat Cake    (Posted Sat, Mar 26 '11 at 04:26 UTC)

[[wind turbines now account for 75% of my towns energy, allowing us to save 800,000 barrels of fuel last year]]

Your town uses 110K bbl/yr? ...have I called you a liar yet? Because now's about time.

[[It's all in how you choose to spend your money]]

Exactly. And if you spend $155million on wind turbines in a non-wind zone ... you've wasted it. Do you really not understand that? I mean, ... are you stuck on stupid? Or retarded?

[[You are part of the problem and we all evolve at different rates]]

I don't believe my personal evolution - or our collective evolution either - depends on deliberate ideological destruction of half the people in the world - virtually all of whom are going to be black, brown and yellow [to use convenient allegorical descriptions].

Now, as I've noted before: you do.

And frankly, I think that is hideous and insane. But if you can sleep at night ... and as long as you don't actually try to start your imposed famine ... more power to you.

Ross & Jeannie Laura Lane Lambs
 kodiakgirl
 kodiak
Re: Let Them Eat Cake    (Posted Sat, Mar 26 '11 at 04:42 UTC)

corrupt, bad people allow the deregulation of poison in agriculture. Bribes, greed and the like. Our town is small and what I said is what I read in my cooperative electric newsletter. Anyhoo, I'm on my way out to my beautiful new high tunnel that the gov't gave me for free. That is the way our gov't subsidizes little guys like me, not just the big guys. I guess a person who is growing 400 acres of soybeans for fuel isn't saving the world from starvation either, like they may think. It's only fit for fuel, since it's too poisonous for living creatures to safely consume. People will be dying off from fuel running out, not from us organic growing folks. The brown and yellow, I guess meaning not white dominated countries will be far better offf than we, since they are used to gardening and surviving without a brand new gas guzzling truck. It will be people who don't know how to survive that die off. people who are too dependent on giant poison farms. You are deluding yourself. Enjoy cancer.

heather
 foreversunrise
 piedmont
Re: Let Them Eat Cake    (Posted Sat, Mar 26 '11 at 04:42 UTC)

[I'm sorry that you don't have the attention span to read a whole essay. They're really informative if you can manage it at some point. ]
ha ha

Dave & Roxanna foreversunriseorganics.com
 foreversunrise
 piedmont
Re: Let Them Eat Cake    (Posted Sat, Mar 26 '11 at 05:13 UTC)Negative Rank

About Me
Name: Ross Williams Location: Illinois, United States
I designed my own house, raise sheep, wear bifocals and have a wife who does stained glass. I've worked in defense contracting for over 25 years on their war-planning and logistics systems and have little patience for those who've had a class in poli-sci lecturing me on how to do what I do. I've done my job under administrations of all available partisanships and do not discern more than trivial differences between them; most of the public posturing is just that: posturing. Folks who buy into the politics, my fellow citizens, are largely idiots when it comes to my subject area. I don't tell them how to balance their company's books or do the high-tech whizbangery they do, they won't tell me what I'm doing. That's not debatable. I do not confuse my opinions with the facts, and won't allow others to do that in front of me. Both sides of an issue are valid and necessary, and the quickest way to advertise yourself as a fool is to claim that one side is evil.

you might read your last sentance there, you think one side is evil.

Dave & Roxanna foreversunriseorganics.com
 rwilymz
 Edwardsville
Re: Let Them Eat Cake    (Posted Sat, Mar 26 '11 at 05:21 UTC)

[[you might read your last sentance there, you think one side is evil.]]

Incorrect.

I think one side is hypocritical and self-important when they espouse eliminating commercial farming. I think one side is ... well, ME, when they don't, for I am on that side.

I am simply not a hypocrite.

And you would do very very very very very well to not try to define me from now on. Okay?

Ross & Jeannie Laura Lane Lambs
 foreversunrise
 piedmont
Re: Let Them Eat Cake    (Posted Sat, Mar 26 '11 at 05:32 UTC)Negative Rank

first insault, now threats. your funny. sad but funny. i'm finished i will just sit back and read something more interesting to me. the comics.

Dave & Roxanna foreversunriseorganics.com
 rwilymz
 Edwardsville
Re: Let Them Eat Cake    (Posted Sat, Mar 26 '11 at 05:36 UTC)

Darren ... or are you Roxie?

Threats?

Seriously?

Me saying I'm not a hypocrite is a threat to you?

Well, I'm also not illiterate. So add that to the list.

Ross & Jeannie Laura Lane Lambs
 rwilymz
 Edwardsville
Re: Let Them Eat Cake    (Posted Sat, Mar 26 '11 at 05:47 UTC)

[[corrupt, bad people allow the deregulation ....]]

That's helpful. Vague denunciation is always a great ice-breaker.

[[I'm on my way out to my beautiful new high tunnel that the gov't gave me for free.]]

You're welcome.

[[[Soybeans are] only fit for fuel, since it's too poisonous for living creatures to safely consume.]]

You'd probably better tell all the vegans, and the lactose intolerant, and the Chinese, and the everyone else ... because they're eating soy.

[[The brown and yellow ... countries will be far better offf than we, since they are used to gardening and surviving without a brand new gas guzzling truck.]]

Trucks, sure. But they're also eating US food, and surviving on American medicine for their epidemic diseases. Africa, Asia and US inner cities will not be devoid of people, no. But you're reationalizing why 90% of them can just croak: To make you feel better about yourself.

Which is despicable. Have I mentioned that?

It's going to be you and me in your post-apocalyptic vision. Me with my fruit trees, organic lamb and eggs, you with your self-righteousness and whatever else it is you grow. Plus the odd caribou that wanders past...

I hope Sarah taught you how to shoot.

Ross & Jeannie Laura Lane Lambs
 Angela
 Conway
Re: Let Them Eat Cake    (Posted Sat, Mar 26 '11 at 06:23 UTC)

WOW!

I hope you all take the time to read back through this thread. If this is a sampling of how we (farmers) will work together toward common goals.....we're screwed.

I wish you all a good harvest...both physically and emotionally. Have a good evening.

Angela G Stanley Rockgate Farm
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